>> HELLO EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO AMANPOUR & COMPANY.

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> WHAT HAPPENS LAST NIGHT SHOWED THAT IRAN'S OWN FORCES DO NOT HESITATE IN DEFENDING THE COUNTRY.

>> AS PRESIDENT TRUMP SAYS IRAN WILL PAY THE PRICE FOR TAKING TOO LONG TO NEGOTIATE, TEHERAN THREATENS TO RESPOND WITH STRENGTH AND POWER.

> >> SUZANNE MALONI LOOKS AT WHERE THIS MAY BE HEADED.

> >> WE ARE UNITED IN CALLING FOR CALM TO RESTORE ORDER, SUPPORT THE POLICE, AND ALL THOSE ON THE FRONT LINE.

>> ANTI-IMMIGRANT VIOLENCE FLARING IN BELFAST AFTER A SUDANESE NATIVE IS CHARGED IN A HORRIFIC KNIFE ATTACK.

> >> AND JOURNALIST HEIDI BLAKE INVESTIGATES WHAT SHE CALLS ANDREW TATE'S EMPIRE OF ABUSE.

REVEALING HOW THE ONLINE INFLUENCER BECAME THE DEFINING FIGURE OF THE MACHINE-OSPHERE.

LATER.

> >> THE STRAIT NEEDS TO BE OPEN.

THERE NEED TO BE A DEGREE OF SECURITY.

>> WALTER ISAACSON SPEAKS TO SHELL OIL PRESIDENT ABOUT THE OIL SUPPLY CHOKE POINT IN THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ.

>> AMANPOUR & COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

> >> BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

> >> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM EVERYONE.

.

THERE WAS A SHARP CHANGE OF TONE ON IRAN IN THE OVAL OFFICE TODAY AFTER DAYS OF CLAIMING TO BE VERY CLOSE TO A FINAL DEAL.

PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID THIS.

>> SO WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS BUT WE HIT THEM HARD YESTERDAY.

AND WE'RE GOING TO HIT THEM AGAIN HARD TODAY.

IN CASE YOU MISS IT.

IN CASE YOU DON'T TURN ON YOUR TELEVISION SET.

AND WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS WITH A DEAL.

>> NOW EARLY THIS MORNING IRAN LAUNCHED RETALIATORY STRIKES ON AMERICAN BASES IN THE REGION AFTER THE U. S. MILITARY STRUCK STRATEGIC LOCATIONS NEAR THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ.

WHICH WERE THEMSELVES A RESPONSE TO IRAN'S DOWNING OF A U. S. ARMY HELICOPTER EARLIER THIS WEEK, AND THAT CAME SHORTLY AFTER IRAN AND ISRAEL EXCHANGED FIRE OVER THE WEEKEND.

SO, HERE WE ARE.

AFTER WEEKS OF STALLED DIPLOMACY, COULD THE ATTACKS ESCALATE INTO RENEWED FIGHTING?

HERE TO DISCUSS, SUZANNE MALONI IS THE LEADING EXPERT ON IRAN AND THE PERSIAN GULF AND HAS STATE DEPARTMENT POLICYMAKERS ADVISED IN DEMOCRATIC AND REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATIONS.

A VERY WARM WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM AS WE TRY TO PARSE THE LATEST DEVELOPMENTS.

WE JUST ARTICULATED RIGHT THAT IRAN SHUT DOWN A U. S. HELICOPTER.

IRAN RETALIATED WITH DRONES AND MISSILES.

TARGETSIN JORDAN, KUWAIT.

NOW TEHERAN IS REVIEWING WHETHER TALKS CAN CONTINUE.

A QATARI DELEGATION HAS ARRIVED FOR NEGOTIATIONS.

WHERE DO YOU SEE WHERE WE ARE NOW?

ARE WE CLOSE TO THE CEASE FIRE COLLAPSING ENTIRELY?

WHAT COULD THAT MEAN?

>> THANKS SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

I DON'T THINK WE ARE YET AT A POINT WHERE WE CAN SAY THE CEASE FIRE CAN'T BE CONTINUED.

I THINK IT WILL BE A VERY MESSY AND PROBABLY PROLONGED CEASE FIRE AS BOTH SIDES BELIEVE THAT THEY CAN USE FORCE TO TRY TO ASSERT THEIR OWN ADVANTAGE AT THE NEGOTIATING TABLE.

THEY BELIEVE BY ESCALATING THEY WILL PERSUADE THE OTHER PARTY TO COME MORE QUICKLY TO CONSENSUS AROUND THE TERMS THAT THEY WANT.

AND SO, I THINK THE IRANIANS WERE VERY DELIBERATE IN SHOOTING DOWN THE APACHE.

THEY UNDERSTOOD IT WILL PROVOKE A NEW CYCLE OF VIOLENCE.

AND THEY BELIEVE AND ARE PROBABLY ACCURATE THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP WANTS AND NEEDS AN END TO THE WAR AND THAT IRAN HAS THE UPPER HAND AT THIS MOMENT.

>> IT IS A STUNNING THING YOU JUST SAID.

WE SAID IT AS IF WE EXPECTED THIS TO HAPPEN ON THE FIRST DAY THIS WAS LAUNCHED BUT HERE WE ARE.

I WANT TO POINT OUT ACCORDING TO CNN'S FACT CHECKING, TRUMP HAS SAID 38 TIMES THAT A DEAL WAS CLOSE.

YET HIS TONE DID SHARPEN JUST IN THE LAST LITTLE WHILE, THREATENING THAT IRAN IN HIS WORDS WILL PAY THE PRICE.

AND HE WILL HIT IRAN HARD.

DO YOU THINK THAT IS A NEGOTIATING TACTIC FROM TRUMP OR DO YOU THINK HE WILL ESCALATE BECAUSE HE IS SHOWING GENUINE FRUSTRATION ABOUT THE DIPLOMATIC TRACK COLLAPSING?

>> I SUSPECT THE UNITED STATES WILL TAKE A MORE SEVERE ACTION THAN WAS TAKEN YESTERDAY.

THEY DID HIT SUPPLIES OF DRINKING WATER YESTERDAY.

AND THAT, YOU KNOW, IS KIND OF A CIVILIZATIONAL ISSUE ECHOING SOME OF THE RHETORIC THE PRESIDENT HAS INVOKED PREVIOUSLY.

AND HE SEEMS TO BELIEVE THAT BY HITTING CIVILIAN INFRASTRUCTURE, HE MIGHT COW THE IRANIAN REGIME INTO CAPITULATING.

WHAT WE HAVE SEEN OVER THE COURSE OF THE WAR IS IRANIANS REALLY WANT ESCALATION DOMINANCE.

THEY BELIEVE THEY CAN CONTINUE TO UP THE ANTE AND THAT THE PRESIDENT ULTIMATELY DOES NOT WANT TO REVERT TO A FULL- FLEDGED WAR, NOR DOES HE WANT TO TAKE THE STEPS THAT WOULD BE NECESSARY TO REOPEN THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ MILITARILY.

THAT WOULD REQUIRE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF TROOPS AND SIGNIFICANT GROUND PRESENCE WITHIN IRANIAN TERRITORY.

AND I DON'T THINK THAT IS A WAR THAT ANYONE IN THE UNITED STATES IS PREPARED TO CONTEMPLATE RIGHT NOW.

>> WHAT YOU ARE DESCRIBING IS THE WORLD'S LARGEST AND STRONGEST MILITARY IN A BIND.

IRAN DIDN'T RESPOND WHEN ISRAEL STRIKES WERE CONFINED TO SOUTHERN LEBANON.

IT APPEARED TO BE SIGNALING THAT IT IS A RED LINE NOW AND IT WILL NO LONGER STOP AT ITS OWN BORDERS.

WHAT HAPPENED AT THE KUWAIT AIRPORT WAS EXTREME.

LEADERS ARE INDICATING THEY ARE READY TO TAKE GREATER RISKS HERE.

SO THE CHAIRMAN OF IRAN'S EXPEDIENCY COUNCIL SAID THIS.

IRAN'S ATTACK IN DEFENSE OF LEBANON WAS NOT MERELY A MILITARY RESPONSE.

IT WAS THE FORMAL DECLARATION OF A STRATEGIC DOCTRINE.

IF ANY COMPONENT OF THE ACCESS OF RESISTANCE IS ATTACKED, THE RESPONSE WILL EXTEND BEYOND GEOGRAPHIC BORDERS AND ALTER THE REGIONAL BALANCE OF POWER.

SO THE ACCESS OF RESISTANCE IS BACK.

WHAT DOES THIS TELL YOU ABOUT ANY DETERRENTS POSTURE THAT THE U. S. AND ISRAEL WERE CERTAIN, TOLD US WOULD COME OUT OF THIS WAR?

>> IN MANY RESPECTS IT HAS BEEN ERODED.

THE GENERAL ASSESSMENT WAS THAT HEZBOLLAH AS WELL AS OTHER IRANIAN PROXIES WHICH HAD BEEN HEAVILY DEGRADED AND THAT IRAN REALLY WASN'T THE THREAT THAT IT PREVIOUSLY POSED ACROSS THE REGION TO NEIGHBORING STATES AND WHAT WE SEE IS THE PROXIES HAVE BEEN ERODED BUT THEY ARE BOUNCING BACK.

AND THE IRANIANS ARE NOW DETERMINED TO ESTABLISH A KIND OF NEW STRATEGIC POSTURE IN THE REGION.

IN WHICH THEY ATTACK OTHER COUNTRIES TO DEFEND THOSE PROXIES.

IT USED TO OPERATE IN REVERSE.

AND THAT IS NOT ACTUALLY AN IMPROVEMENT IN THE BROADER STRATEGIC CALCULUS.

IT IS NOT AN IMPROVEMENT IN THE BALANCE OF POWER OR THE PROSPECTS OF STABILITY ACROSS THE MIDDLE EAST.

WE HAVE AN IRAN THAT FEELS EMPOWERED.

THAT IS PREPARED TO ACT TO DEMONSTRATE THAT IT IS A FORCE ACROSS THE REGION.

>> DO YOU BELIEVE IT MEANS THE EXTREMISTS IN IRAN, THE REVOLUTIONARY GUARD THEMSELVES ARE ACTUALLY GETTING WHAT THEY WANT OUT OF THIS?

>> OH YES, THE BALANCE OF POWER WITHIN THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC HAS ABSOLUTELY SHIFTED IN FAVOR OF THE MILITARY.

THOSE COMPONENTS OF THE MILITARY WITHIN THE REVOLUTIONARY GUARD WHO WERE MAJOR FORCES WITHIN THE REGION.

THEY REALLY WANT TO BE ON THE OFFENSIVE.

THEY ARE NOT PERHAPS AS IDEOLOGICAL AS THE CLERICS WHO ARE IN CONTROL OF THE REGIME BUT THEY ARE DETERMINED TO PRESENT IRAN AS THE STRATEGIC HEGEMONY.

>> IT ATTACKED GULF NEIGHBORS AND FORCED TRUMP TO CALL NETANYAHU TWICE TO STAND DOWN.

SOMETIMES I DON'T KNOW WHO PRESIDENT TRUMP IS NEGOTIATING AND ON WHO'S BEHALF.

IT SEEMS THE IRANIAN LEADERSHIP HAS CONCLUDED THAT AGGRESSION WORKS FOR THEM.

HAS TEHERAN ESSENTIALLY CRACKED THE CODE ON HOW TO PLAY THIS CONFLICT AND WHAT LEVERAGE DOES WASHINGTON HAVE LEFT?

IN MARCH, YOU SAID THIS CONFLICT WOULD NOT END QUICKLY.

>> UNFORTUNATELY, I THINK THAT IS STILL THE CASE.

WE MAY BE CLOSE TO THE COMPONENTS OF A DEAL THAT WOULD BE VIABLE BUT I THINK THE IRANIANS WILL CONTINUE TO USE FORCE TO ASSERT THEIR ADVANTAGE AND THE UNITED STATES WILL FEEL COMPELLED TO RESPOND.

WE ARE LIKELY TO SEE MORE CYCLES OF VIOLENCE LIKE THIS EVEN IF WE MAKE IT TO THE MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING THAT APPEARS TO BE UNDER DISCUSSION BY BOTH SIDES.

I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT THAT THE IRANIANS JUST BELIEVE THAT FORCE IS AN ASSET FOR THEM AND THE TIME LINE IS ON THEIR SIDE.

THERE WILL BE TIME PRESSURE FOR THE IRANIANS AS WELL.

THEY ARE SUFFERING FROM AN AMERICAN BLOCKADE.

THEIR RESILIENCE IS PROBABLY GREATER THAN THAT OF THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY IN PARK BECAUSE THE BLOCKADES STARTED LONG AFTER THE CLOSE OF THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ.

WE ARE RUNNING INTO A CRUNCH.

>> WHAT WOULD BE THE TIPPING POINT IN IRAN?

THEIR ECONOMY IS SUFFERING AS WELL.

>> I THINK THAT THEY WANT A DEAL AS WELL.

SOME OF THEIR ESCALATION MAY BE DESIGNED TO TRY TO DRIVE TRUMP TO A BETTER SET OF TERMS FROM THEIR SIDE.

WE HAVE TO BE FOCUSED TO GET A DEAL THAT OPENS THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.

>> SUZANNE, WE WILL LEAVE IT THERE FOR NOW.

GRATEFUL FOR YOUR INSIGHTS.

>> THANK YOU.

> >> NOW, A WAVE OF ANTI- IMMIGRANT VIOLENCE SWEPT THROUGH BELFAST, NORTHERN IRELAND AFTER A SUDANESE MAN WAS CHARGED IN A BRUTAL KNIFE ATTACK.

MASS PROTESTERS SET AUPON HOUSES AND CARS AND FORCED SEVERAL FAMILIES WITH YOUNG CHILDREN TO FLEE THEIR HOMES.

THE VIOLENCE KICKED OFF AFTER POLICE SAID THEY CHARGED THE 30- YEAR-OLD SUSPECT WITH ATTEMPTED MURDER BY A STABBING FILMED BY A BYSTANDER.

ANTI-IMMIGRANT ACCOUNTS SEIZED ON THE VIDEO WITH MANY CALLING FOR FURTHER PROTESTS.

EXTRA OFFICERS WOULD BE ON THE STREETS IN THE COMING HOURS AS LOCAL AND NATIONAL LEADERS CALL FOR CALM.

NOW, THIS VIOLENCE COMES AT A TIME OF HEIGHTENED RACIAL TENSION RIGHT ACROSS THE U. K. THE CITY IDENTIFY WITH PAINFUL MEMORIES OF VIOLENCE.

MARIA IS A FORMER IRISH SENATOR AND JOINS US NOW.

A WARM WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

YOU SAID CANDIDLY THE LAST FEW HOURS THIS HAS BEEN SOUL- DESTROYING FOR YOU AND THE COMMUNITY.

THE HORRIFIC DETAILS OF THIS CRIME AND THE AFTERMATH AND HOW IT ALL UNFOLDED HOUR BY HOUR SEEMED TO BE PIVOTAL TO UNDERSTANDING HOW THIS ESCALATED.

HOW DO YOU THINK THIS RESULTED IN THE HORRIFYING SCENES IN BELFAST WITH FAMILIES AND AS I SAID YOUNG CHILDREN?

>> THANK YOU PAULA.

THE PICTURES SHOW HOW DESPICABLE THE EVENTS OF THE LAST NUMBER OF NIGHTS HAVE BEEN.

FIRST OF ALL STARTING WITH THE ORIGINAL ATTACK WHICH WAS HORRIFYING TO WATCH.

THAT INDIVIDUAL IS NOW IN CUSTODY.

SO THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE PROCESS WILL TAKE ITS COURSE IN RELATION TO THAT.

WE THEN SAW AN INFLUX OF MISINFORMATION ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

SO, IN THAT PERIOD OVERNIGHT, THERE WAS A HUGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO WOULD BE ASSOCIATED I SUPPOSE WITH THE FAR RIGHT.

LOTS OF THOSE PEOPLE DIDN'T COME FROM NORTHERN IRELAND.

THEY PROBABLY HAVE NEVER SET FOOT IN BELFAST.

SO THAT WHIPPED PEOPLE UP IN A FRENZY.

BUT WE HAVE HAD A RISE OF WHAT WE WOULD TERM RACIAL HATE CRIMES HERE.

FIGURES WERE RELEASED SHOWS UP UNTIL MARCH, THERE WERE OVER 2,000 INCIDENTS RACIALLY MOTIVATED.

WE HAVE A LEGACY OF CONFLICT.

WE HAVE A COMMUNITY SEGREGATED ON THE BASIS OF RELIGION.

HUGE CONCRETE WALLS THAT SEPARATE THEM.

WE SHOULD KNOW BETTER THAN TO OTHER PEOPLE BASED ON THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN.

AND I THINK THE PICTURES ARE WHOLLY DEPRESSING.

IT IS UNFORTUNATELY THE REALITY AND WE NEED TO TRY TO TACKLE THAT.

BURNING HOMES WITH CHILDREN.

AND PEOPLE STILL IN THEM.

THE POLICE HAVING TO RESCUE CHILDREN AS YOUNG AS TWO MONTHS OLD.

I CAN TELL YOU THAT TODAY IN A LOT OF SCHOOLS ACROSS BELFAST FOR EXAMPLE, LITTLE CHILDREN WHOSE SKIN HAPPEN TO BE A DIFFERENT COLOR THAN MINE WERE AFRAID TO EVEN GO INTO SCHOOL AND THEIR PARENTS WERE AFRAID TO SEND THEM BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT SURE IF THEY WOULD GET THERE AND HOME SAFELY.

THAT IS TOTALLY DESPICABLE AND IT NEEDS TO STOP.

>> IT WOULD CERTAINLY LEAVE YOU WITH A SENSE OF DESPAIR.

I WANT TO NOTE THAT THE REACTION FROM THE VICTIM'S FAMILY HERE WAS NOTABLE.

THEY SAID IN A SURFACE-TO-AIR MISSILE THEY CONDEMNED THE VIOLENCE AND SAID IN PART WE HAVE MANY MIGRANTS WHO MAKE A DEEPLY VALUABLE CONTRIBUTION TO OUR COUNTRY.

I WANT TO QUOTE A U. K. LAWMAKER CLAIRE HANNAH WHO SAYS AND I'M QUOTING HER NOW, WHAT YOU ARE SEEING IS A RACE BASED POGROM.

YOU ARTICULATED YOU SHARE HER CONCERNS.

WHAT ARE YOUR FEARS AFTER WHAT YOU WITNESSED IN THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS?

>> THOSE FEARS ARTICULATED THINK BY THE PEOPLE PUT OUT OF THEIR HOMES.

THE ANGER OF THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE HERE, THEY SHOULD KNOW BETTER THAN TO OTHER PEOPLE BASED ON DIFFERENCE.

WE SPENT THE LAST 30 YEARS DOING THAT HERE.

SIMPLY PEOPLE HAVE MOVED ONTO A DIFFERENT TARGET.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WELCOME ANYBODY COMING FROM OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY.

THEY MAKE UP A HUGE BULK OF OUR HEALTH SERVICE FOR EXAMPLE.

THE NHS WOULDN'T EXIST WITHOUT PEOPLE COMING FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

THEY CONTRIBUTE TO THE ECONOMY.

THEY RUN BUSINESSES.

THAT SHOULD BE WELCOMED IN TERMS OF DIVERSIFYING SOCIETY HERE.

WE HAVE A SMALL ELEMENT OF PEOPLE WHIPPED UP BY PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET AND I HAVE TO SINGLE OUT ELON MUSK WHO SHARED THE PROTESTS INFORMATION THE NIGHT BEFORE.

I DON'T KNOW WHETHER ELON MUSK HAS EVER COME TO BELFAST.

IF HE HAS, IT HIZZONER BEEN REPORTED HAS EVER BEEN REPORTED ON.

THE TYPES OF AREAS YOU ARE SEEING, EDUCATION ACHIEVEMENT AND ATTAINMENT IS NOT WHAT IT SHOULD BE.

IF ELON MUSK WANTED TO POSITIVELY CONTRIBUTE, HE COULD GET TOGETHER WITH A NUMBER OF CEOs .

I CAN SEE THE PICTURES PLAYING OUT.

SEE THE YOUNG PEOPLE STANDING AROUND ON THE STREET.

WOULDN'T IT BE BETTER TO CREATE A BETTER FUTURE FOR THEM.

PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIVE IN THIS COUNTRY WERE SPREADING INFORMATION OF THINGS WHICH ACTUALLY DIDN'T HAPPEN AND HEIGHTENING TENSION.

THERE ARE A NUMBER OF ELEMENTS TO IT.

THE YOUNG PEOPLE, WE REFER TO IT AS RECREATIONAL RIOTING.

WE ALSO HAVE OLDER PEOPLE WHO SHOULD KNOW BETTER AND TAKE THOSE CHILDREN HOME.

THE REPORTS IN THE MEDIA TODAY OF A FATHER LIFTING HIS YOUNG CHILD, NO MORE THAN SEVEN YEARS OF AGE ONTO HIS SHOULDERS TO SEE A PICTURE OF A BURNING HOUSE OR TO SEE A BURNING HOUSE, LIKE IT WAS SOME SORT OF FAIRGROUND ATTRACTION, THAT IS JUST ABSOLUTELY HORRIFIC AND SO, OUR POLITICIANS REALLY NEED TO LEAD FROM THE FRONT LINES AND DO AWAY WITH THE MISINFORMATION.

FOR EXAMPLE, ASYLUM SEEKERS, THAT PHRASE HAS BEEN BANDIED ABOUT THE LAST NUMBER OF DAYS MAKE UP .

1% OF THE POPULATION.

JUST OVER 2,000 PEOPLE.

I HAZARD A GUESS ACROSS AMERICA, THEY WOULD BE LOOKING AT THESE RIOTS SAYING THAT WAS TOTALLY A DISPROPORTIONATE HORRIFYING RESPONSE.

>> GIVEN WHAT YOU ARTICULATED ABOUT THE MISINFORMATION.

WE HEARD IN FROM THE LAWMAKERS IN WESTMINSTER AS WELL.

THEY SAID EXTREMISTS WHO EXPLOIT THAT GRIEF AND ANGER TO SPREAD HATRED AND VIOLENCE, THEY POINT TO ELON MUSK AS WELL.

THEY POINT TO DIVISIVE ALGORITHMS.

DO YOU BELIEVE THERE IS ACTION HERE THAT CAN BE TAKEN?

>> I HAVE BEEN ADVOCATING WELL BEFORE ELON MUSK TOOK OVER X BY THE WAY, WHEN SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES WERE FIRST GETTING UP.

WHEN I FIRST BECAME A POLITICIAN AND POSSIBLY BEFORE THAT WHEN I WAIVED ANONYMITY AS A RAPE VICTIM, LEGISLATORS WORLDWIDE NEED TO TAKE CON SANS CONSCIENCE OF THIS.

PUNCHING DOWN ON VULNERABLE PEOPLE IS NOT THE WAY TO GO.

REALLY, I THINK THOSE PLATFORMS SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

FOR MISINFORMATION PUBLISHED ONLINE AND FOR INFORMATION WHICH LEADS TO VIOLENT ACTS PUBLISHED ONLINE.

THAT ISN'T TO EXCUSE THE PEOPLE ON THE GROUND IN BELFAST BY THE WAY, BUT IT IS TO TRY TO ERADICATE SOME OF THE DIFFICULTY AND PROBLEM WE ARE HAVING LEADING TO SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE.

PEOPLE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN PHYSICAL ACTIONS.

THEY SHOULD GO HOME.

STAY AT HOME AND MAKE SURE THEIR CHILDREN ARE AT HOME WHERE THEY ARE SAFE.

AND STOP TARGETING OTHER PEOPLE SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY HAVE A DIFFERENT COLOR SKIN TO THEM.

>> MARIA, BEFORE I LET YOU GO, YOU MAKE A VERY SALIENT POINT.

BELFAST IS STILL SEGREGATED ALONG RELIGIOUS LINES.

SOME AS YOU POINT OUT HAVE CONTEMPT FOR THE OTHER.

IT IS THEIR COLLATERAL DAMAGE DO YOU THINK TO THE SPIRIT OF THE GOOD FRIDAY AGREEMENT HERE UNDERSTANDING THE HISTORY OF BELFAST?

>> FIRST OF ALL, THE GOOD FRIDAY AGREEMENT BROUGHT A LOT OF POSITIVITY TO NORTHERN IRELAND.

BUT IT HAS ALSO, IT IS SLOW TO USE THAT PHRASE.

A LOT OF PEOPLE APATHETIC ABOUT IT.

THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T GO AND VOTE BECAUSE THEY DON'T BELIEVE THEIR POLITICIANS WILL DELIVER FOR THEM.

THEY ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ANGRY BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GET ACCESS TO HOUSING.

BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO GET SUSTAINABLE EMPLOYMENT.

FIGURES SHOW SOME OF THEM ARE SECOND AND THIRD GENERATION UNEMPLOYED.

IT IS NO EXCUSE FOR COMMITTING A CRIME, BUT IT EXPLAINS SOME OF THE DIVISION IN SOCIETY AND THE IGNORANCE FESTERING AND WE HAVE CHILDREN TARGETED BY PARA MILITARIES.

THAT DOESN'T MAKE HEADLINES IN THE WAY THE GOOD FRIDAY AGREEMENT DID.

WE NEED COLLECTIVE INPUT HERE.

WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO SUSTAIN SOCIETY.

WE NEED ECONOMIC INPUT.

I NOTE YOUR PREVIOUS ITEM WAS ON THE BOARD.

ORDINARY PEOPLE, PRICES HAVE GONE THROUGH THE ROOF BECAUSE OF TRUMP'S ACTIONS.

THAT HAS ALLOWED BAD ACTORS TO STEP IN AND EXPLOIT PEOPLE.

TO DO THINGS THAT THEY WANT THEM TO DO.

WE END UP MOPPING UP THE MESS BECAUSE WE ARE DEALING WITH YOUNG MEN, PARTICULARLY CHILDREN ACTUALLY, LOOKING AT FACING CRIMINAL RECORDS RESULT.

>> MARIA, WE DO NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE.

BUT WE SO APPRECIATE YOUR PERSPECTIVE FROM BELFAST TODAY.

APPRECIATE IT.

> >> NOW, WE GO TO THE TATE BROTHERS.

ANDREW AND TRISTAN ARE AMONG THE MOST RECOGNIZED FIGURES IN THE ALT-RIGHT MANOSPHERE.

THEY PEDDLED CONTENT ABOUT MALE DOMINANCE ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

IN RECENT YEARS THEY HAVE FACED INVESTIGATIONS OF RAPE AND HUMAN TRAFFICKING.

CHARGES THEY DENY.

A COMPREHENSIVE REPORT IN THE NEW YORKER INVESTIGATES WHAT WRITER HEIDI BLAKE CALLS ANDREW TATE'S EMPIRE OF ABUSE.

SHE PORED THROUGH COURT RECORDS DETAILING VIOLENT DISTURBING ALLEGATIONS.

WARNING, THIS CONVERSATION WILL CONTAIN DISTRIBUTION OF SEXUAL VIOLENCE WHICH MAY BE DIFFICULT TO HEAR.

HEIDI BLAKE, I WANT TO WELCOME YOU TO THE PROGRAM.

THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>> YOU KNOW.

IN READING THIS INVESTIGATION, AND JUST READING THE DETAILS, I LITERALLY ALMOST BECAME PHYSICALLY ILL, JUST FROM READING IT.

AND, THEN I HAD TO THINK ABOUT WHAT THE VICTIMS WENT THROUGH IN TERMS OF WHAT THEY WENT THROUGH WHEN THIS WAS GOING ON AND HAVING TO RECOUNT IT NOT JUST TO YOU BUT TO AUTHORITIES AS WELL.

YOU POINT OUT THIS IS REALLY WHEN IT COME TO ANDREW TATE, YOU DOCUMENTED IT.

THERE ARE ALLEGATIONS OF GROOMING, COERCION, RAPE, TRAFFICKING, ALL KINDS OF ABUSE.

AND SO MUCH OF IT OUT THERE FOR ANYONE TO SEE IN PLAIN SIGHT.

THIS IS ULTIMATELY A STORY ABOUT ANDREW TATE OR IS IT REALLY THE INSTITUTIONS THAT FAILED TO STOP HIM BECAUSE AS I SAID, I WAS FLOORED BY EVERYTHING YOU UNCOVERED.

>> YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

IN A LOT OF WAYS THIS A STORY ABOUT IMPUNITY AND ABOUT HOW THE TATE BROTHER HAVES MANAGED TO AFTER SPENDING SO MANY YEARS SYSTEMATICALLY EXPLOITING WOMEN AND BRAGGING ABOUT THE WAY IN WHICH THEY HAVE SYSTEMATICALLY EXPLOITED WOMEN TO THEIR MANY FOLLOWERS ARE NOW MANAGING TO EVADE JUSTICE FOR THOSE ACTIONS.

AND TO LEVERAGE THEIR POLITICAL CONNECTIONS ON THE RIGHT WING IN AMERICA TO GET AWAY WITH IT.

THAT WAS PARTLY WHAT PROMPTED ME TO BEGIN INVESTIGATING THIS.

WAS LAST YEAR, IN FEBRUARY, SHORTLY AFTER DONALD TRUMP'S REELECTION, ANDREW TATE AND TRISTAN TATE WERE FREED FROM ALL TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS IN ROMANIA WHERE THEY FACE SERIOUS CHARGES AND HAVE BEEN TRAVELING THE WORLD FREELY AND DECLARING THEIR INNOCENCE.

THAT HAPPENED AFTER THE U. S. APPLIED PRESSURE ON ROMANIA AND THE PROSECUTORS LIFTED THOSE RESTRICTIONS AFTER A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF PRESSURE FROM THE U. S. SO I REALLY WANTED TO SEE WHAT HAD THE BROTHERS DONE AND TO DIG AS MUCH AS I POSSIBLY COULD INTO THE EVIDENCE I COULD FIND TO DOCUMENT THEIR ACTIONS OVER THE PAST TEN YEARS AND TO TRY TO GIVE THAT CONTEXT TO PEOPLE.

JUST HEARING THEM DECLARE THERE IS NO EVIDENCE AT ALL.

>> AND YET, YOU POINT OUT THAT THE INVESTIGATION IN THE U. K. IS JUST ONE OF MANY DISTURBING PARTS HERE.

IN 2014 AND 2015.

THINK ABOUT HOW LONG AGO THAT WAS.

THREE WOMEN, THEY WENT TO BRITISH POLICE ALLEGING RAPE AND STRANGULATION BY ANDREW TATE.

HE WAS ARRESTED BUT THEN ULTIMATELY THE CASE COLLAPSED.

PROSECUTORS DECLINED CHARGES AGAINST IN 2018.

WHERE DO YOU SEE IT IF POLICE AND PROSECUTORS HAD PROPERLY INVESTIGATED THOSE EARLY ALLEGATIONS UNDERSTANDING WHERE WE ARE THEN AS WELL IN THE ME TOO DEVELOPMENT.

IS IT POSSIBLE HERE THAT ANDREW TATE NEVER BECOMES THE GLOBAL FIGURE HE IS NOW?

>> YEAH.

I THINK THAT IS REALLY AN IMPORTANT QUESTION.

THERE IS A STRONG CASE TO MAKE THAT IF THOSE THREE WOMEN HAD BEEN TAKEN SERIOUSLY AND PROPERLY LISTENED TO A DECADE AGO, ANDREW TATE COULD HAVE FACED JUSTICE AND BEEN HELD ACCOUNTABLE AND PERHAPS OTHER WOMEN WOULD NOT HAVE SUFFERED IN THE WAY THAT THEY HAVE IN THE YEARS SINCE THEN.

IT IS SHOCKING THE WAY IN WHICH THAT INVESTIGATION WAS HANDLED.

YOU HAD THREE WOMEN WHO ALL WENT TO THE POLICE AND MADE SIMILAR ALLEGATIONS THEY HAD BEEN STRANGLED AND ASSAULTED AND RAPED BY ANDREW TATE AND THAT INVESTIGATION WAS LEFT TO GATHER DUST FOUR YEARS.

ALMOST NOTHING WAS DONE ABLE IT.

POLICE LEFT ANDREW TATE'S PHONE LYING AROUND THE STATION AND DENY DOWN LOAD IT PROPERLY AND ANDREW TATE SKIPPED THE COUNTRY AND MOVED TO ROMANIA, A JURISDICTION WHERE HE HIMSELF HAS SAID HE IS FREE TO CONTINUE BEHAVING TOWARD WOMEN IN THE WAY THAT HE WISHES TO BEHAVE WITHOUT FACING ANY ACTION FROM THE AUTHORITIES.

AND SO YEAH.

THAT IS REALLY A SHOCKING EXAMPLE OF THE WAY THAT FAILURE TO TAKE RAPE ALLEGATIONS SERIOUSLY BY THE POLICE CAN HAVE FAR REACHING CONSEQUENCES.

>> IN FACT, HE SAYS IT LOUDLY AND PROUDLY.

JUST IN THE LAST FEW DAYS ANDREW TATE WAS SITTING ON A GOLF COURSE OUTSIDE OF MOSCOW GIVING AN INTERVIEW IN WHICH HE DISMISSED ROMANIAN PROSECUTORS.

IF HE HAD HURT ANYONE, HE SAID HE WOULDN'T BE A FREE MAN TODAY.

LISTEN.

>> THE ROMANIAN STATE HAS THE SAME LEVEL OF JUDICIAL INTEGRITY AS ZAMBIA.

SO ANYTHING THEY SAY WE CAN TAKE WITH A LARGE PINCH OF SALT.

DO I KNOW PEOPLE IN YES.

I'M A FAMOUS MAN.

I KNOW PEOPLE.

IF I HAD EVER HURT ANYBODY WITH HOW HARD THEY TRIED TO PUT ME IN JAIL, I WOULDN'T BE SITTING HERE NOW.

>> WHAT STRIKES YOU ABOUT THAT?

>> WELL, I THINK WHAT STRIKES ME ABOUT THAT IS THAT ANDREW TATE HAS BEEN SAYING PUBLICLY FOR YEARS THAT HE MOVED TO ROMANIA SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE IT IS A MORE LENIENT JURISDICTION WHEN IT COMES TO CRIMES AGAINST WOMEN.

HE SAYS ROMANIA IS A CORRUPT COUNTRY AND I CAN USE THAT TO MY OWN ADVANTAGE.

HE CLAIMED HE WAS ABOVE THE LAW IN ROMANIA.

IT TOOK HIM BY SURPRISE WHEN AUTHORITIES BROUGHT THE HUMAN TRAFFICKING CASE AGAINST HIM.

NOW HE IS SAYING IT IS A CORRUPT COUNTRY AND SHOULDN'T BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.

THERE IS A RAPE AND HUMAN TRAFFICKING INVESTIGATION INTO BOTH THE TATE BROTHERS IN THE UNITED KINGDOM.

THEY ARE WANTED ON 129 COMBINED COUNTS OF RAPE AND HUMAN TRAFFICKING.

THEY ARE NOT BEING EXTRADITED BECAUSE A COURT HAS RULED THEY CANNOT BE UNTIL THE ROMANIAN PROSECUTION HAS RUN ITS COURSE.

THEY ARE EFFECTIVELY BEING PROTECTED BY ROMANIA.

ANDREW TATE PLAYS THE SYSTEM WITH THE WAY IT SUITS HIM AT ANY GIVEN TIME.

BUT THERE ARE VERY, VERY SERIOUS ALLEGATIONS IN MULTIPLE JURISDICTIONS.

>> WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS SO SHOCKING BECAUSE DESPITE ALL THE DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE, THE INVESTIGATIONS, AND YOU SAY THERE ARE STILL THESE ALLEGATIONS OUT THERE, THE INVESTIGATIONS OUT THERE, HE IS STILL BROADCASTING AND TRAVELING AND GROWING HIS AUDIENCE AND STILL MAKING MONEY FROM THE LIKES OF APPLE AND YOUTUBE.

WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU ABOUT POWER AND IMPUNITY ONLINE HERE?

>> YEAH.

IT IS EXTRAORDINARY TO ME THAT THE BROTHERS ARE ALLOWED TO CONTINUE TRAVELING AND EXPANDING THEIR REACH AND CONTINUE MAKING MONEY GIVEN THE GRAVITY OF THE ALLEGATIONS AGAINST THEM.

THAT WAS A BIG PART OF WHY I WANTED TO DIG INTO THIS INVESTIGATION.

THEY HAVE POWERFUL ALLIES ON THE RIGHT, IN PARTICULAR ELON MUSK WHO HAS DECLARED THE CASE AGAINST THEM BOGUS AND SAID THEY ARE THE TARGETS OF SOME LIBERAL SMEAR CAMPAIGN TO DISTRACT FROM ACTUAL SEX TRAFFICKING AND THERE ARE OTHER MAJOR VOICES AS WELL.

DONALD TRUMP JR.

CANDACE OWENS.

TUCKER CARLSON.

ALL THESE PROMINENT FIGURES HAVE DEFENDED THE BROTHERS AND THEIR RIGHT TO CONTINUE BROADCASTING AND SAYING WHATEVER THEY LIKE.

BUT WHEN I MET ANDREW TATE AT A CIGAR LOUNGE IN BUCHAREST, HE SAID SOMETHING THAT HAS BECOME A FAMILIAR ARGUMENT OF HIS.

IF I'M A HUMAN TRAFFICKER, SHOW ME A VICTIM.

WHY ARE THERE NO VICTIMS?

I WENT OUT AND SPOKE TO MORE THAN A DOZEN WOMEN WHO SAID WHO ARE ALLEGED VICTIMS OF THE TATE BROTHERS.

I GATHERED ACCOUNTS FROM MANY MORE.

THERE ARE MANY WOMEN WHO FEEL THEY WERE VERY SERIOUSLY VICTIMIZED BY THESE TWO MEN AND THEY KIND OF COME UP WITH ANY NUMBER OF DIFFERENT ARGUMENTS TO BAT THE CHARGES AWAY BUT THE EVIDENCE AGAINST THEM IS VOLUMINOUS.

THEY HAVE A LOT TO ANSWER FOR.

>> SO YOU JUST MENTIONED YOU DID SIT DOWN WITH HIM.

WHY DID YOU DECIDE TO SIT DOWN WITH HIM AND WHAT MOST SURPRISED YOU ABOUT YOUR ENCOUNTER?

>> I THOUGHT IT WAS REALLY IMPORTANT TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHERE THEY ARE COMING FROM AND THEIR PSYCHOLOGY.

AND ALSO TO GIVE THEM A FAIR CHANCE TO GENUINELY TELL ME THEIR SIDE OF THIS.

I REALLY WANTED TO HEAR THEM OUT.

I SPENT A HUGE AMOUNT OF TIME WITH TRISTAN IN PARTICULAR WHO GAVE ME A LOT OF HIS TIME ON THE PHONE AND IN PERSON AND ABOUT AN HOUR WITH ANDREW.

AND WHAT STRUCK ME IN THE MEETING WITH ANDREW, HE LIED BRAZENLY ABOUT THE NATURE OF HIS WEB CAM OPERATION.

NOT ONLY DID HE SAY HE HAS NEVER SAID ANYTHING DESIGNED TO DENIGRATE WOMEN WHICH IS PLAINLY UNTRUE IF YOU LOOK AT HIS MANY ONLINE PRONOUNCEMENTS.

HE ALSO SAID TO ME THAT HIS WEB CAM BUSINESS HAD BEEN CLOSED FOR TEN YEARS AT THE POINT HE WAS RAIDED BY ROMANIAN POLICE WHICH IS UNTRUE.

HE SAID IT WAS CLOSED BEFORE IT BEGAN.

I WAS STRUCK HE COULD LOOK ME STRAIGHT IN THE EYES AND TELL ME THESE BARE FACED LIES.

>> SO IN SITTING DOWN WITH HIM.

DID YOU COME TO UNDERSTAND WHY HE HAS SUCH INFLUENCE.

>> I THINK HE IS QUITE ADEPT AT DONNING A DIFFERENT SKIN SUIT.

SO IN THE CONVERSATION WITH ME, HE WAS CAREFUL TO BE RESPECTFUL OF WOMEN.

HE WAS A VERY DIFFERENT CHARACTER THAN THE CHARACTER YOU SEE ONLINE.

I THINK I GOT A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THE WAY IN WHICH HE HAS BUILT SUCH AN ENORMOUS AUDIENCE ONLINE FROM STUDYING HIS METHODOLOGY OVER THE YEARS AND I THINK THERE WAS REALLY A CRUCIAL MOMENT IN 2022 WHEN HE DEVISED AN INGENIOUS WAY OF EXPANDING HIS GLOBAL FOLLOWING TO ESTABLISH SOMETHING CALLED HUSTLERS UNIVERSITY.

AN ONLINE SCHOOL THAT PURPORTED TO TEACH MODERN WEALTH CREATION METHODS BUT FUNCTIONED AS A GIANT CONTENT FACTORY.

IT HAD THIS AFFILIATE MARKETING PROGRAM IN WHICH MEMBER COULD EARN COMMISSIONS BY CLIPPING UP ANDREW TATE'S VIDEOS AND REPOSTING THEM.

SUDDENLY.

HE HAD THOUSANDS OF FAN ACCOUNTS CHURNING OUT HIS CONTENT AND PUMPING IT INTO ALGORITHMS THAT ARE PRIMED TO AMPLIFY MISOGYNISTIC IDEAS SO THAT SUMMER OF 2022, ANDREW TATE'S' CONTENT EXPLODED.

VIEWED MORE THAN 12 BILLION TIMES ON TIKTOK ALONE THAT SUMMER AND HE JUST BECAME THIS GLOBAL FORCE.

AND THAT HAPPENED TO COINCIDE CLOSELY WITH THE HUMAN TRAFFICKING INVESTIGATION.

HE WAS ARRESTED AT THE END OF THAT YEAR, THAT FED INTO WHY THERE WAS SO MANY FIGURES ON THE RIGHT PREPARED TO STAND UP AND SAY HE WAS BEING TARTED BY POLITICAL SMEAR CAMPAIGN.

>> HEIDI, WE ONLY HAVE ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT.

IN THAT TIME COULD YOU REALLY PUT THE FOCUS FOR US ON THE WOMEN, THE VICTIMS THAT YOU HAVE MET?

THEY HAVE BEEN HARASSED, DISCREDITED.

DO THEY HAVE A HOPE THAT THE STATES WILL FINALLY BE ACCOUNTABLE?

>> I THINK A LOT OF WOMEN HAVE SHOWED EXTRAORDINARY COURAGE.

THEY HAVE BEEN A REAL DRIVING FORCE IN HOLDING THE AUTHORITIES HERE TO ACCOUNT AND MAKING SURE THIS INVESTIGATION STAYED ON THE AGENDA AND THE WOMEN IN ROMANIA CONTINUING TO SEEK JUSTICE THERE.

IT IS SO IMPORTANT THOSE WOMEN'S VOICES ARE HEARD.

THERE ARE A COMMUNITY OF WOMEN DESCRIBING A SIMILAR PATTERN OF CONDUCT.

GROOMING, COERCION, SIMILAR SEXUAL ASSAULTS ON THE PART OF ANDREW AND TRISTAN TATE.

THEIR VOICES NEED TO BE HEARD.

>> YOU HAVE CERTAINLY DISTILLED THEIR SUFFERING QUITE FRANKLY IN A VERY DISTURBING WAY WHICH BRINGING A WHOLE NEW LIGHT TO THIS CASE.

HEIDI BLAKE, THANK YOU FOR JOINING THE PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>> NOW THINK ABOUT THIS.

EVEN IF THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ REOPENED TODAY, IT COULD STILL TAKE UP TO SIX MONTHS FOR OPERATIONS TO RETURN TO NORMAL.

THAT IS THE WARNING FROM THE PRESIDENT OF SHELL U. S. WHO SAYS THE DISRUPTION FROM THE IRAN WAR WILL BE FELT LONG AFTER ANY KIND OF PEACE AGREEMENT HERE IS REACHED.

COLETTE HIRSTIUS JOINS WALTER ISAACSON ON HOW THEY VIEW THE CRISIS AND WHAT SHE BELIEVES LIES AHEAD.

>> THANK YOU PAULA AND COLETTE.

WELCOME DO THE SHOW.

>> THANK YOU WALTER.

IT IS REALLY GREAT TO BE HERE WITH YOU TODAY.

>> ALL SORTS OF THINGS KEEP HAPPENING EACH DAY INVOLVING THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ AS THE PRESIDENT OF SHELL U. S. AND PART OF THAT BIG COMPANY, TELL ME YOUR FEELINGS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS IF WE DON'T GET THE STRAIT OPENED IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS OR SO?

>> THANKS FOR THE QUESTION.

THE IMPORTANT ASPECT TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THE SITUATION WE ARE IN IS THE VOLUME OF ENERGY THAT FLOWS THROUGH THE STRAIT.

WE ARE TALKING 20% OF THE ENERGY BOTH OIL PRODUCTS AS WELL AS NATURAL GAS IN THE FORM OF LNG.

THAT COMES OUT OF THE STRAIT TO FEED THE GLOBAL ECONOMY.

SO WHAT HAS HAPPENED THE PAST 100 DAYS IS WE A A HOLE, A GAP OF PRODUCT THAT IS MISSING OFF OF THE MARKET.

THERE HAVE BEEN MANY THINGS THAT BUFFERED THE IMPACT OF THAT HOLE.

ONE IS THAT WE CAME INTO THIS ENVIRONMENT IN A HEALTHY WAY.

WE HAD A BUFFER BAUDS WE WERE SLIGHTLY OVERSUPPLIED AGAINST THE DEMAND AND WE SAW AN IMPACT IN PRICES.

PRICES WERE SOFTENING AND EXPECTED TO THROUGH THE COURSE OF THIS YEAR WHICH WE HAVE NOT SEEN BECAUSE OF THE IMPACT IN THE STRAIT.

WITHIN THAT, WE HAVE ALSO SEEN SOME OTHER PRODUCT FLOWS COME ONTO THE MARKET THROUGH RELEASE OF THE STRATEGIC PETROLEUM RESERVE, THROUGH ADDITIONAL WEAVERS, THE ADMINISTRATION HAS PULLED THAT HAS HAD A POSITIVE IMPACT.

THINGS LIKE THE JONES ACT WAVER.

AND THAT BRINGS ME TO YOUR QUESTION WHICH IS WHAT HAPPENS IF THE STRAIT DOESN'T GET OPENED?

AND THE REALITY IS THAT WE WILL BE IN AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE WE HAVE LOW PRODUCT SUPPLIES.

THAT WILL RESULT IN EXPECTED INCREASE FROM THE PRODUCT WE SEE TODAY.

WE ANTICIPATE MORE PRESSURE ON CRUDE AND ON PRODUCTS THAT COME FROM THAT CRUDE OVERALL.

AND WE ANTICIPATE THAT WILL CONTINUE UNTIL PRICES GET HIGH ENOUGH THAT DEMAND IS DESTROYED.

THAT PROCESS OF DEMAND DESTRUCTION IS PRETTY ABRUPT.

IT IS A BIT OF A BRUTAL AND BLUNT FORCE.

>> YOU MEAN A RECESSION HAPPENS IS WHAT YOU ARE SAYING?

>> IT CAN BE MUCH MORE SUBTLE AND SOFT THAN THAT.

IT CAN BE FLIGHTS CANCELED.

IT CAN BE.

THEN AS THAT PROGRESSES ON, IT GETS MORE CHALLENGING AND MORE DIFFICULT SO I THINK THAT IS THE ASPECT AND THE FOCUS THAT SHELL HAS IS CONTINUING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE GETTING OUR PRODUCTS TO MARKET AND ABLE TO PROVIDE THE PRODUCTS THAT OUR CUSTOMERS NEED.

>> AND THE INVENTORIES HAVE BEEN DRAWN DOWN.

DOESN'T THAT IMPACT THINGS?

>> IT DOES.

AND THE POSITION THAT WE CAME INTO THIS WAR FROM WAS ONE OF A HEALTHY SITUATION.

INVENTORIES HAVE BEEN DRAWN DOWN.

AND WE CONTINUE TO WORK TO MAKE SURE WE ARE SUPPLYING OUR PRODUCTS TO MARKET AND GETTING THOSE TO CUSTOMERS IN THE BEST WAY THAT WE CAN.

>> LET ME TRY TO PARSE THAT WHICH IS HOW LONG DO YOU THINK IT WILL TAKE FOR US TO GET BACK TO NORMAL IF INDEED THE STRAIT REOPENS SOON?

>> THERE ARE MANY ELEMENTS OF THE PROCESS THAT NEED TO FALL INTO PLACE.

THE FIRST IS WE NEED THE STRAIT OPENED.

THERE NEED TO BE A DEGREE OF SECURITY WHERE WE CAN MOVE THE PRODUCTS OUT OF THE STRAIT AND THEN WE NEED TO RESTART THE UPSTREAM ENGINE.

THAT IS THE WELLS FLOWING.

THERE HAS BEEN SOME DAMAGE ALTHOUGH NOT AS EXTENSIVE.

IT WAS EARLY ON IN THE CONFLICT.

SOME OF THAT DAMAGE WILL TAKE TIME TO FIX.

THEN IT NEEDS TO FLOW INTO NEW TANKERS THAT COME INTO THE STRAIT AND THE PRODUCTS NEED TO GET TO MARKET.

AND I WOULD SAY THAT WE WILL RETURN TO A NORMAL CYCLE BUT IT IS NOT GOING TO BE IN A MATTER OF WEEKS.

IT WILL TAKE MORE LIKE QUARTERS TO HALF A YEAR TO RETURN TO NORMAL OPERATIONS.

>> WHAT ARE YOU TELLING THEM OR WHAT ARE YOU SUGGESTING TO THEM?

>> THERE ARE FEW KEY POINTS TO MAKE AT THIS POINT IN TIME.

ONE IS THE IMPORTANCE OF GETTING THE STRAIT OPENED.

THE SECOND IS THAT SUPPLIES HAVE CONTINUED TO DIMINISH AND A THIRD POINT IS WHILE MANY OF THESE POSITIVE OPTIONS HAVE BEEN EXERCISED SO THE DECISION TO RELEASE VOLUME FROM THE STRATEGIC PETROLEUM RESERVE IS FOR SITUATIONS LIKE THIS AND A WAIVER FROM THE JONES ACT HAS HELPED.

EMPHASIZING THAT THE OPTIONS THAT REMAIN THERE ARE NOT MANY.

WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO SUPPORT DOMESTIC PRODUCTION.

HAD WE BEEN 20 YEARS AGO WHEN WE WERE A NET IMPORTER THE IMPACT WE WOULD HAVE FELT IN THE U. S. WOULD HAVE BEEN SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT.

SO OUR NATURAL RESOURCES THAT WE HAVE IN OUR COUNTRY HAVE BEEN UTILIZED TO PROVIDE SOME OF THE BUFFER AND SECURITY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT WE ARE IN.

>> YOU WERE ACTUALLY VERY INVOLVED IN THAT.

YOU WERE CHARGED IN GULF EXPLORATION AS A GEOLOGIST.

YOU ARE SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT FOR THE DRILLING IN THE GULF.

HAVING SO MUCH OIL FROM THE GULF RIGHT NOW, DOES THAT BUFFER US?

DOES THAT MAKE IT IN SOME WAYS A SILVER LINING TO THIS THAT WE ARE A NET EXPORTER?

>> WITHOUT A DOUBT.

SO THE SITUATION IN THE U. S. THAT WE ARE AN EXPORTER AND SO WE HAVE SECURITY IN OUR RESOURCE SPACE, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE ARE FULLY INDEPENDENT.

AND I THINK THAT IS AN IMPORTANT ASPECT TO REALIZE.

WHILE WE HAVE ABUNDANCE, WE IMPORT PRODUCTS TO CREATE THE PRODUCTS WE EXPORT.

AND WE WANT TO CREATE THAT FLOW OF PRODUCTS WHERE WE ARE SENDING PRODUCTS OUT OF THE COUNTRY.

ALSO OUT TO OUR ALLIES AND RECEIVING PRODUCTS WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO DELIVER ENERGY TO OUR CUSTOMERS AND TO SOCIETY AS A WHOLE.

>> YO ARE TELLING PEOPLE IN WASHINGTON DON'T PUT A BAN ON THE EXPORT OF LIQUEFIED NATURAL GAS AND OIL.

MANY ARE SAYING WHY ARE WE EXPORTING IT?

>> THAT IS EXACTLY RIGHT.

SO IF WE WERE TO SEE THAT ACTION TAKEN IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT FOR US TO CONTINUE TO TO PRODUCE AT THE VOLUMES WE ARE FOR THE CUSTOMERS WE HAVE IN OUR ALLIED COUNTRIES.

>> ARE YOU WORRIED PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE ARE SAYING THINGS LIKE MAYBE WE NEED PRICE CONTROL, MAYBE WE ARE NEED TO STOP EXPORTS?

>> IF I THINK ABOUT WHERE WE ARE, THERE IS AN IMPORTANT ASPECT OF PREDICTABILITY.

THAT IS HOW WE CAN CONTINUE TO INVEST.

OUR SUPPORT FOR DOMESTIC AND ALLIED POLICIES AS A WHOLE.

THOSE ACTIONS WHICH WOULD BE VERY SHORT TERM FOCUS IN THE LONG RUN WILL BE QUITE DAMAGING.

>> AND WHAT ABOUT, YOU WILL MAKE PROBABLY LARGE PROFIT ESPECIALLY FOR THE SECOND QUARTER BECAUSE PROFITS ARE GOING UP.

>> THE QUESTION OF TAXES AS A WHOLE AND WHAT WE NEED TO DO OR WHAT ACTIONS EXIST, THE MOST IMPORTANT ACTION IS TO OPEN UP THE STRAIT.

IT IS A COMMODETIZED PRICE.

WE DON'T SET THE PRICE AT THE PUMP, WE DON'T SET THE PRICE OF CRUDE.

IT IS A QUESTION OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND.

SO ULTIMATELY, THE ACTION THAT IS MOST HELPFUL IS MAKING SURE THOSE PRODUCING ARE FLOWING AND GETTING TO THE PLACES THAT THEY NEED TO BE.

>> SHELL IS THE BIGGEST DRILLER IN THE GULF.

WITH PRICES THIS HIGH, ARE YOU GOING TO START DRILLING MORE OR IS THAT SOMETHING THAT JUST CAN'T BE DONE NOW?

>> THE CYCLE TIME OF OUR PROJECTS ARE SUCH THAT THE PLAN THAT WE HAVE IN PLACE, THE DRILLING AND THE ACTIVITIES SET FOR THE YEAR, IT IS DIFFICULT TO TURN ON MORE WORK.

WE ARE MAXED OUT IF YOU WILL.

ALL THE WELLS WE HAVE ARE PRODUCEING TO THEIR FULL POTENTIAL BUT THERE ARE SOME THINGS WE CAN DO WHICH IS LOOKING AT THE WAY WE EXECUTE MAINTENANCE.

THE WAY WE TAKE ASSETS OFFLINE THAT WILL ULTIMATELY TAKE MORE PRODUCT OFFLINE.

WE HAVE LOOKED AT ALL OF THOSE ACTIVITY TO MAKE SURE WE ARE LIMITING THE IMPACT AS MUCH AS WE POSSIBLY CAN.

SO THAT WE DON'T TAKE ACTIONS THAT ARE ULTIMATELY GOING TO HURT THE WAY WE CONTINUE TO PRODUCE.

>> WHAT OF THE IMPACTS OF TARIFFS, ESPECIALLY TARIFFS ON STEEL WHICH I ASSUME YOU USE A LOT OF?

>> WE DO.

>> IT IS NO HOW WE DRILL WELLS.

THINK ABOUT A BIG STRAW YOU ARE PUTTING INTO THE EARTH.

AND THE METAL THAT WE USE IS PRETTY SPECIALIZED.

THERE ARE ONLY ONE OR TWO MANUFACTURING LOCATIONS THAT CAN MAKE THOSE.

SO IN THAT WE HAVE TO IMPORT A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT PRODUCTS WE USE.

WHEN WE LOOK AT THE IMPACTS OF TARIFFS, YOU CAN CALCULATE WHAT THE PERCENTS ARE.

WE CONTINUE TO LOOK AT DIFFERENT WAYS WE UTILIZE DOMESTIC OPTIONS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE ARE ORGANIZING OUR BUSINESS AND DELIVERING THE BEST WAY WE CAN.

>> YOU HAVE BEEN AROUND AT LEAST 25 YEARS IN THE ENERGY SECTOR.

TELL ME ABOUT THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE U. S. ENERGY SECTOR.

ESPECIALLY DEEP WATER IS YOUR BIG EXPERTISE IN THE GULF.

>> IF I REFLECT OVER THAT TIME PERIOD AND AGAIN IT IS THIS REALITY WE HAVE GONE FROM BEING A COUNTRY THAT IS A NET IMPORTER TO WHERE WE ARE NOW, WHERE WE ARE A NET EXPORTER, AND THAT THAT HAS COME FROM TECHNOLOGY AND INNOVATION COUPLED WITH GEOLOGY OF COURSE.

AND THE NATURAL RESOURCES THAT EXIST IN OUR COUNTRY.

WE HAVE A REGULATORY ENVIRONMENT OF OVERSIGHT ON HOW THE ENERGY IS PRODUCED AND THAT IS A GREAT BENEFIT WE DERIVE MANY ASPECTS OF.

ONE IS PREDICTABLE RELIABLE ENERGY TO GROW OUR ECONOMY.

IT IS ALSO EMPLOYMENT AND JOBS.

AND ENERGY INDEPENDENCE.

SO THERE ARE MANY ASPECTS THAT HAVE CHANGED AND MATERIALIZED AND THE U. S. LAST YEAR WAS THE LARGEST PRODUCER WITH JUST OVER 13 MILLION-BARRELS OF OIL PRODUCED A DAY IN OUR COUNTRY.

WHICH IS REMARKABLE GIVEN THAT 20 YEARS PRIOR, WE WERE NOT THE FIRST PRODUCER IN THE WORLD AND WE WERE A NET IMPORTER VERSUS EXPORTER SO IT HAS BEEN REMARKABLE AND VERY MUCH SPURRED BY TECHNOLOGY TECHNOLOGY AND INNOVATION AND IT HAS BEEN A RED THREAD FOR OUR COUNTRY AND ECONOMY.

>> BUT WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THE TRANSITION EVEN AT SHELL, AWAY TO A NEW ENERGY FUTURE, ONE THAT WAS LESS HARMFUL TO THE CLIMATE, BUT ALSO, RELIED LESS ON PETROL CHEMICALS?

>> YEAH.

SO I THINK THAT WE ARE IN A TRANSITION.

AND WHAT THE PACE OF THAT TRANSITION LOOKS LIKE HAS TO DO WITH CUSTOMERS.

IT HAS TO DO WITH THE TYPE OF PRODUCTS THAT CUSTOMERS ARE WILLING TO BUY.

AND IT HAS A BIG PIECE OF AFFORDABILITY.

WHAT CAN CUSTOMERS AFFORD.

WE NEED TO EXIST IN THE ENERGY SYSTEM THAT IS THE REALITY OF TODAY AND NOT ONE THAT WE ARE KIND OF HOPEFUL FOR TOMORROW.

>> WHY NOT?

WHY AREN'T WE PUSHING OURSELVES TO THE MORE HOPEFUL FUTURE?

>> I THINK OUR CUSTOMERS AREN'T WILLING TO PAY MANY OF THE PRICES THAT COME WITH THAT.

BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE DON'T INVEST IN IT.

SO AS SHELL, WE HAVE INVESTED SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 1 AND $3 BILLION A YEAR TO MAKE SURE WE ARE CONTINUING TO PROGRESS WITH LOW CARBON SOLUTIONS AND WHAT THAT CAN BE IN THE FUTURE AND IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT WORK CONTINUES TO PROGRESS AND THAT WE FIGURE OUT AGAIN GIVEN THAT WE, SHELL AND THE U. S. HAS BEEN PRODUCING FOR 120 YEARS AND PROVIDING ENERGY, WE KNOW THAT THE NEXT 120 YEARS WILL LOOK DIFFERENT THAN TODAY.

WE WANT TO CONTINUE TO BE ON THE FRONT EDGE.

>> ONE OF THE NEW INVESTMENTS THAT YOU HAD BEEN DOING WAS THE ATLANTIC SHORES OFFSHORE WIND PROJECT.

AND SHELL WAS VERY INVOLVED.

AND THEN, PRESIDENT TRUMP COMES ALONG AND I THINK HE SAID SOMETHING LIKE HOPEFULLY, THE PROJECT IS DEAD AND GONE.

THIS IS SOMETHING HE PUT OUT ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

HOW HAS THE ADVENT OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AFFECTED YOUR PUSH TOWARD ALTERNATIVE ENERGY AND IS THAT WHY YOU PULLED BACK FROM THINGS LIKE WIND?

>> IT ISN'T WHY WE PULLED BACK FROM THAT PROJECT.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE INVEST IN WAYS THAT WE THINK WILL DELIVER VALUE IN RETURN.

PRODUCT THAT'S OUR CUSTOMERS AS WELL AS A RETURN TO THE SHAREHOLDERS SO WE LOOK ACROSS OUR PORTFOLIO AND LOOK AT THE BEST WAY TO ALLOCATE OUR CAPITAL BASED ON THAT.

ONE OF THE ASPECTS WE LOOK AT IN OUR CORE BUSINESS IS WHERE ARE THE AREAS WE CAN INVEST THAT ARE LOWEST CARBON INTENSITY AND THE PRODUCTION WE HAVE IN THE OFFSHORE U. S. GULF IS THE LARGEST LOW CARBON DENSITY BARRELS IN THE WORLD.

ULTIMATELY PROJECTS WE INVEST IN NEED TO RANK ON A NUMBER OF PRIORITIES.

THE RETURN THAT THEY DELIVER IS ONE OF THOSE ASPECTS BUT ALSO THE INTENSITY OF THE CARBON INTENSITY OF THE BARRELS OR THE MOLECULE OR THE ELECTRON WE PRODUCE IS EQUALLY A PART OF THAT DECISION MAKING.

>> YOU ARE IN THE WASHINGTON OFFICE OF SHELL NOW.

YOU ARE FROM LOUISIANA SO I DON'T NEED TO TELL YOU THIS.

BUT POLITICS CAN SWING BACK AND FORTH.

IT CAN BE REALLY VARIABLE.

HOW ARE YOU PREPARING FOR THE POSSIBILITY THAT THE POLITICS SWINGS BACK TOWARD BEING MORE ANTAGONISTIC TO CARBON BASED FUELS?

>> AT SHELL, WE DON'T HAVE A POLITICAL POSITION.

WE ADVOCATE FOR THE POLICIES WE THINK ARE THE BEST FOR THE BUSINESS WE ARE TRYING TO DELIVER.

WHAT THAT MEANS IS WE DO NEED TO FOCUS ON THE HERE AND NOW.

BUT WE ALSO NEED TO FOCUS ON THE MEDIUM TERM AND THE LONG TERM AND WE KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS IS THAT WE NEED TO ADVOCATE ACROSS ALL SPECTRUM OF LAWMAKERS AND LEGISLATURES HERE IN DC AS WELL AS THE STATE LEVEL.

WE HAVE SIMILAR SIMILAR POLITICS AND SITUATIONS AND IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE ARE NOT CAUGHT UP IN THE POLITICS OF THE MOMENT AND REALLY THINK ABOUT THE LONG TERM AND HOW WE INVEST FOR CONTINUITY AND DELIVERY.

>> COLETTE HIRSTIUS, THANK SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU WALTER.

GREAT TO BE HERE WITH YOU TODAY.

> >> FINALLY, BACK LIKE SHE NEVER LEFT.

[ CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ] >> SERENA WILLIAMS MADE A TRIUMPHANT RETURN TO TENNIS AFTER NEARLY FOUR YEARS AWAY FROM THE THE SPORT.

THE 44-YEAR-OLD MOTHER OF TWO PROVED HER WORTH AS ONE OF THE ALL TIME GREATS WINNING A DOUBLES MATCH AT LONDON'S QUEENS CLUB WITH HER CANADIAN PARTNER WHO IS 25 YEARS HER JUNIOR.

IT SPARKED FRESH SPECULATION OVER A POTENTIAL WIMBLEDON RETURN BUT SHE IS WEIGHING HER DECISIONS.

GO ON, SERENA, YOUR DAUGHTERS WILL TELL YOU TO DO IT.

THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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AND WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.