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Thank you very much for joining us for another edition of Donnybrook.

Too many topics tonight but we're gonna get to those as soon as we meet the panelists starting with Wendy Weise, the media veteran, one of our founders Bill McClellan from the St.

Louis Post Dispatch, also from the Post and stltoday.com, political columnist Joe Holleman and from your St.

Louis American and many other media sources like KTRS and beyond, Alvin Reid.

It's all true, it's all true.

Hey Joe, we're gonna start with you.

This past weekend there was a 30 by 25 foot sinkhole that erupted at Broadway and Biddle in downtown St.

Louis.

One of the 100 year old water mains broke and it actually shut down a federal highway 4470 from Poplar Street Bridge to Tucker.

Federal highway shut down, okay, but this is not the first time we've had a sinkhole.

Last year the route of the St.

Louis Marathon was re-routed because of a sinkhole.

The same summer that there was a major sinkhole in North St.

Louis and then the year before that, 2024, we had 400 water main breaks in the city of St.

Louis alone.

2017, I think people forgot this one, there was a couple who lost their automobile on 6th Street at Locust while they were working out in a nearby gym.

So I don't know about you, I don't feel all that safe about being in downtown St.

Louis these days.

Aside from that, you said a long long ago that all of the Rams money, every penny, should be going to water infrastructure.

Right.

When do we congratulate you now?

You know, you hate, you know, I hate to say I told you so.

No you don't.

But I actually like it, but I feel bad it hit this point, but to me it just seemed so logical at the time that found money and the Water Department is saying, you know, we're 200, 300 million dollars.

It's like, okay, this is perfect.

Fix these problems.

These are not isolated problems as you very expertly laid out.

There's hundreds of these and thank God this one didn't knock out the piece of highway while cars were on it.

It could have been a lot worse and to me it just seemed to be spending it on the Water Department was the most logical way that would have benefited every city resident and every area of the city.

Now are we sure this isn't recency bias because we did have a tornado in North St.

Louis with a billion dollars in damage.

And I think, I've said this before too, that if there had not been a tornado, how the money was spent, there was a much greater chance that all of the money went to the Water Department, but the fact that the money was going to have to be divvied up, then, you know, downtown wanted some and all that.

So that kind of created this, I guess, three-way tug-of-war with what is most needed.

I honestly do think without the tornado that I... No, you don't.

No, you don't.

You really think that most of that money would have gone to the Water Department without the tornado?

Yes, I do.

No tornado.

I don't know, guys.

I think it would have.

Because you can tell downtown you can wait or you can tell downtown find your own money.

You could do a lot of things, but I think there's a moral obligation is one.

But, well, really, I think it would have been on fire.

Here's the thing, Elvin, we had a tornado, we have the sinkholes, and they're still giving money to downtown, 55 million dollars.

But 55 million, and I remember the great Bill McClellan said, when that first number first came up, you said like, you're gonna be amazed at how fast that money goes.

And I thought, Bill's right.

You were right.

And I was wrong.

I think you were right, Joe.

I favored something flashy.

I mean, all of a sudden, I inherited some money.

I'd want something flashy.

Yeah, water and sewer systems.

That's just not sexy enough.

Believe me, I can be just as irresponsible.

The problem is, is the other one was staring you in the face.

Right.

You know, and it was just yelling out, dude, something needs to be done.

I got to agree with Wendy, though.

I don't think all the money would have went to the Water Department because the problem is, politicians like the flashy.

Right.

Something they can pull off.

So, we just got into a political maneuvering where everybody wanted a little piece.

Let me ask you guys, though.

I'm just throwing this out there.

You know, MSD's in charge of these sewers, and nobody's covering them.

We don't know anything about what they're doing with the money.

I mean, in 2024, we passed two measures increasing our property taxes in April of that year, but has there even been a single story?

What the heck MSD is doing?

Do you remember our reporter who covered every MSD meeting?

Phil Sutton.

Yeah, Phil Sutton with his turtleneck.

Yep.

I mean, he, on vacation, somebody was sent, you know, to go there on assignment, fill in for Phil, and Phil was there.

Yeah.

He covered it all.

But that was 40 years ago.

I know.

I mean, this is not, this is not, these are not, this is not a bureau or whatever I'm trying to think of.

This is not an agency that is, that I would suspect of any kind of malfeasance or dragging their heels or anything.

I would.

They had a history.

They had a history.

Yeah.

Well, I don't want to know about that history, because I think they've, I mean, when they have to, when they have to negotiate into corners that no other human person would ever, ever want to go to ensure the structural safety or the integrity of pipes.

No, thank you.

Oh, I know the job is difficult.

I'm just wondering if they're getting the job done.

Well, I think when it comes to you too, there's so much to do.

I think with utilities is the one thing, as long as when you flush the toilet, things go away and then it refills, you don't care as much.

The water department wouldn't be a concern if every day there wasn't some section of the city where you're without water.

Otherwise it's like, you don't pay attention to how much you pay for water until you don't have it.

Then it's like, Hey, what am I paying this far?

So, and that's what the water department has come to is no matter where you live in the city in the last five years, chances are at some point you've been without water for 24, 48 hours.

But we've all been in the media in this town for 40, between 40 and 50 years.

This is the, this is one of the many instances of just kicking these cans down the road.

And now it has all come home to roost after COVID.

If it had happened before COVID, then I think we'd be looking at a very different picture.

Yes.

And I think water mains are breaking a little bit.

Like we're, we're having more incidents.

They said they would.

But when I first moved back, it didn't seem like water was an issue.

It may have been, but that's because the office buildings were full.

People were working from downtown.

It's just, everything is, is, is much, I don't know.

I, I, well, we'll, we'll discuss this in the future.

Cause we have a lot of topics we've got to move on to Alvin, including Olin, which is a fortune 1000 company ranks number five 23.

It's a six and a half billion dollar company.

And locally about 800 employees.

It's our ninth largest corporation.

Okay.

And it's, it's moving to Texas, just outside of Houston.

And it's kind of a slow drip, drip, drip with all the corporations that we are losing in this area.

I mean, express, express, express scripts became Cigna.

Monsanto is Bayer and Asher Bush is AB InBev and the list goes on and on.

McDonnell Douglas is now Boeing.

I think this is horrible.

Well, I don't, I don't feel like that.

It's kind of like, I don't think, all right, Boeing moved some people to St.

Louis, but it isn't like they moved all of their manufacturing from Seattle here, you know?

So it's kind of like, I, if, if, if they have a facility on the Metro East side, they have facility someplace.

Yeah.

I'm just changing.

Yeah.

But so if the brass is moving someplace else, I mean, I don't think that's all that big a deal.

Well, you know, it's a philanthropy thing for one thing, you know, but I remember when, when you have the headquarters in your town, the big bosses can decide to do something like when Ralston Purina bought the blues because the blues were going to leave town, they could do it because the, the fellow in charge of Ralston Purina lived here now as a branch office town, you just can't do that.

I just don't get that feeling for Olin.

I don't, what was Olin doing for St.

Louis?

It's a leadership thing.

When you have, in services, I mean, They provide a certain leadership and there's a void when they're gone.

The business school at Wash U is the Olin school.

You're right.

Okay.

I was going to say like, just tell me something.

And remember when the symphony, you know, when we were big in terms of fortune 500 companies, instead of as we are today in the branch offices, they, they, the symphony would have, you know, they would have so many, you know, inserts where the, the rich and, you know, powerful were supporting the symphony.

And it, you just don't see anything like that.

But Olin also got this, this got purchased, right?

They didn't just announce that, Hey, we're moving to Texas.

They were bought by a competitor.

Right.

And they're being moved.

So that's another.

By a competitor who was already in Texas.

Yes.

So that's a little different too.

And I'm somewhere in between.

I think it's not good.

I'm more concerned with the 500, 600 union workers in East Alton still making Olin products.

And as long as they're here still working, drawing paychecks because the suits moved not good, but I don't think it's awful.

Do you think the suits were happy to move because there's no state income tax in Texas?

Well, I would have to ask all of them, but I would think yes.

Some of them, some of them probably have their families rooted here and the relatives here and the kids going to school.

Tough question.

This is the second company, major company we're losing to Texas.

Well, it's not a feather in our cap that they moved.

I don't see it as a disaster.

Well, Southwest had bailed it.

That was a long time ago.

And there was some other stuff going on as far as that was concerned.

We're not on a growth curve.

Okay.

Well, Bill, I want to ask you, you attended a meeting this week of the St.

Louis police board of commissioners, I believe.

And yesterday, what I guess happened is that the board of police commissioners voted for their brass to get between 16 and 22% pay raises.

And then today the board of estimate and apportionment of the city of St.

Louis said, okay, if they're going to get that money, that means firefighter salaries have to go up equally.

So they took the board of estimate and apportionment from the city, a million dollars from the police budget.

And then the police said, oh, what are you doing this for?

We didn't talk about this.

Well, just going to the board meeting, it was very clear that there's no collaboration or cooperation.

I remember in the old days when the businessmen, businessmen who were on the board kind of felt very superior and that they were managing the police department for the city because the city couldn't manage it itself.

And now the board feels like it's representing the police department against the city and all the votes are everybody and then Kara Spencer and Sylvia Jenkins-Gray and Kara Spencer.

I mean, it's a good thing or a bad thing, depending on how you look on it, that Chris Saraceno was between them because Ms.

Jenkins-Gray was kind of nasty about, you know, well, I did this and called the city, the mayor's office to try to set up a working group.

And I got no response.

And then the mayor would say, well, wait a minute here.

And poor Saraceno was trying to stop it all.

There's no love lost.

There's no cooperation.

It's not a pretty thing.

Who were the great negotiators of the past other than the late great Thomas Eagleton?

Wasn't it B.T.

Rice?

Remember Reverend B.T.

Rice?

Anytime there was any kind of a skirmish or that bad blood that had been building, that's what we need between the police board and the city and the county council.

I mean, this is almost like an Oprah Winfrey special.

They need to bring people in and dispatch them to all of this dysfunction because it's a Jerry Springer.

It's a Jerry Springer.

Maybe you're right.

I still talk to Reverend Rice every now and then.

He's still very active.

That would have been an excellent appointee to this board.

I don't know that he lives in the city of St.

Louis, though, but I'll tell you what, this goes back to the governor and who he appointed to be on this board.

If he had just made better appointments, it wouldn't be like this.

But Don Brown, who doesn't live in the city either, he's a nice guy.

Chris Saraceno is a nice guy.

They are nice people.

We just have agendas.

Who saw this coming?

I mean, I don't know, but I do feel like he put it this way.

I think that the police picked who they wanted to be on the board, maybe with the exception of Jenkins Gray.

And the governor put no thought into it.

He just said, sure, and rubber stamped it.

I'm not comparing anybody to a dog right here, but that board, it's like you have all of these big dogs really barking, and you got this one yappy dog, and that's Sonja Jenkins Gray.

Oh, come on now.

And that's the one that gets on your nerves.

Right.

I've told you I'm not comparing the dogs, but it's just like... Let's keep it issue oriented.

Wait, no.

But no, he's... That yippet, like he said, like that... It was gratuitous.

Well, yeah, and you would have to irritate it.

And if you are going... I'm sorry, Charlie, but if you are going to accept this kind of an appointment, you have to read the room.

I mean, that is very important on Ms.

Jenkins Gray's part.

Maybe I gotta be there, because until Bill mentioned this, I didn't really know that she had some sort of personality that was irksome.

Have you watched it?

No, I haven't.

Oh, OK.

I mean... She and Karis Spencer clearly are not pals.

There's always been bitterness.

I still remember Van Schamel calling the police officers pigs and cheap, a word we can't use.

A pension fund.

So there has always been this gut drive, but in the negotiations I've been involved in, and we've pounded the table, we've yelled, but you can also tell when they've simply broken down.

And what we need is the court, the Supreme Court or whatever, to say this is what the general fund is.

Then there won't be any more arguing, because right now you're in a situation neither side is going to give an inch to the other, and that's where you are.

Bill, I want to ask you about what's going on in Webster Groves.

The city plans to take about a mile -long stretch on South Elm between Watson and Glendale roads and put in a pedestrian bike path.

It's a way for pedestrians to walk to, kids to walk to the Hickson School, because much of the area has no sidewalk right now.

And then they also want people to commute by bicycle, which is the environmental thing to do.

What they'll do is they'll remove the parking lane from, I guess it'll be the east side of the street, and then they're going to reduce the lanes from 12 feet to 11 feet, and they're going to install this nine-foot-wide pedestrian bike lane.

Unfortunately, they've got to take away some parking from the other side of the street, and they're also going to take some of the neighbor's property, I guess.

Are you in favor of this?

Oh, it's one of the most horrible things I've ever imagined.

I always figure you can't move next to the airport and complain about the noise, or buy a condo overlooking the homeless shelter and complain about the homeless people.

But when you've got your place, and the government comes in and says, we're going to change your lifestyle, and taking away parking from one side of the street is a big change, because all of a sudden you're used to parking in front of your house, and now you can't do it, and parking is at a premium, and it just makes everything tough, and you're doing it so that somebody can have a bigger bicycle path.

I mean, I'm sorry, but I can't imagine this.

Agreed.

It's goofy.

And I don't know what the residents of South Elm have done, because one of the most important people in my life, my hairstylist, lives in Webster Groves.

And so, you know, you wonder, because every part of every community has its, you know, the people who you wouldn't dare suggest something like this with.

But to say that we're either going to take a giant chunk out of your front yard, or we're going to take parking from across the street, and it sounds like it's been with very little conversation since March, and one of the residents who was quoted at the meeting saying, it's either this huge, awful thing, or this huge, awful thing, and they're basically left with absolutely no one to leave it alone.

According to Webster Kirkwood Times, the residents on the side of the street who maintain their parking are in favor of this new bike path.

And I bet a lot of people in Webster are in favor.

Well, they're going to be very unhappy then, because the people who live on that side of the street, I'm going to be parking in front of their house.

Well, that might be the price we have to pay for bike paths in the world.

I mean, well, wait a minute.

Who decided that everything needs to have a bike?

Oh, because there was a grant.

And we all know that if there's a federal grant money, we got to spend that money.

Well, especially in liberal circles now, it's very popular to put in bike trails because it's good for the environment, good for the human body.

I don't think you're paying that just to liberal people there.

I mean, bike paths are going up in conservative communities.

So, you know, I can't say that's a liberal thing.

I think largely, though, in the cities around the world, like Paris and Amsterdam.

We're not Paris.

We're not Amsterdam.

Well, we're not going to be with that attitude.

We're never going to be them.

Oh, why not?

Well, when was the original idea?

It's funny that Amsterdam was number two.

Build the Eiffel Tower here and bring a bunch of Frenchmen.

We have the Gateway Arch.

Where did the original plan to put a bike path there?

Because it seems to me that an argument got bypassed like the day somebody said like, hey, what do you think about putting a bike path on South Elm?

It seems like all of a sudden the money was being spent and you were going to do this and do that.

It's not just a bike path.

It's pedestrian also.

And there's no sidewalk there.

And there's also pedestrians and bikes.

Yeah, there won't be a problem there when some bicyclist runs over a pedestrian.

Well, there's always that friction, of course.

But at least they do have a little concrete barrier separating the traffic from the path.

Traffic and pedestrians.

There's some cutouts in there too.

The environment says cutouts are a great idea.

Yeah, there are traffic and pedestrians.

We got a grant for that.

Let's do that.

I love sidewalks.

And I wouldn't want to, I think it's a problem if you live someplace where there's not a sidewalk.

But those people don't have sidewalks now.

They don't feel like they need them.

They bought their house without a sidewalk.

They're fine.

Except now the folks on the other side of the street who really liked them.

Well, I thought what was real telling in there was is the city had been looking at this plan since fall of 2024.

And the residents said, we found out about this like five years ago.

March, in March.

That's what I'm saying.

It's just like, no one knew this was... We must spend this money.

They should give it to the trolley.

They should spend it on water.

And Charlie, you live on a street that there's parking on only one side.

I do.

And a bike path, right, Charlie?

Well, you know, I live near Hanley Road, which at one point did have parking on it, right?

Before my time.

But my neighbors tell me that people used to park up and down the side of Hanley Road.

He makes it sound like it was the 1800s.

My tees.

If someone came to me with suggestion, let's take some of the property and widen the sidewalk and make it friendly for bicycles, I would be in favor of that.

Of course, I don't live on Hanley Road, but that's my point of view.

Now we move on to you, Wendy.

I want to ask you about Judge Mike Carter.

He's a municipal judge in Wentzville.

And according to a state ethics commission, he has had 26 instances of violations.

He has been mocking criminal defendants.

He has been endorsing candidates.

He's been doing all sorts of stuff, including, according to the commission, lying to them.

So they want him removed.

One question might be, how does a judge like this survive in that position with 26 instances of problems?

I don't know how he has kept it out of the limelight or, you know, the city rooms of the newspapers to this point, because this is just, I mean, this is ridiculous, this kind of behavior, especially when we all remember Judge Elvis and what happened to him.

And he was roundly, I mean, universally criticized and drummed out and disciplined and that kind of thing.

But in my mind, and I understand that this is municipal court.

I understand that this is not the U .S.

Supreme Court.

I understand all of that.

But this is still a court of law where people are going to answer to charges against them.

There is a certain amount of decorum.

And when you question on your little social media platforms, whether a young woman being inebriated can actually be sexually assaulted, that should have raised alarm bells a lot sooner than it has.

But I just want everybody, I wish people would pick a lane and stay there.

Do you wanna practice law or do you wanna be a comedian?

Do you wanna go to Caesar's Palace?

Do you wanna go to the Funny Bone?

You have a choice.

Just pick a lane and stay there.

Whether you're the county executive, whether you're the police chief, whether you're a municipal court judge, give your position the decorum that it deserves.

I agree.

And I just think that, and it's not necessarily just the Oval Office, but we have seen over the years that people in high achieving positions have lost that.

And that their behavior trickles down.

Every week is a little more, every month is a little bit more.

And I think this is where we get to the point where someone like in his municipal judge has just completely forgotten that I really shouldn't behave this way.

Well, see, the thing is, we always had crazy municipal judges, but now they have podcasts.

Yeah, it's a social media landscape.

There was a lot that was said out loud by people who held office that if it ever got out, it probably would have been the end of them.

But now they just put it out there.

They broadcast on themselves.

Okay.

Hey, finally tonight, I thought we'd take a look at an outstanding catch by U.S.

Senator Eric Schmidt, who is playing in the annual baseball game of the Republicans against the Democrats in Washington, D.C.

That one struck to left field.

And what a, whoa, what a great play.

Eric Schmidt, amazing catch down the left field line.

Oh, be darned.

That is a heck of a catch.

There you have it once again.

Joe, you wrote about this.

He wasn't hauling in federal cash for tornado victims, unfortunately, but that was a heck of a catch.

And somehow I knew it was going to be a big deal.

And for reasons other than the catch, a couple of friends of mine tipped me off that it was, it made ESPN's top plays.

So if you're a sports fan like I am, and a lot of us are, top 10 plays on ESPN is a thing you watch.

You see the great plays.

So when I saw that, I'm like, okay, I gotta look this up.

Otherwise, there's no way I'm writing about a congressional baseball game.

I don't care.

Hope those guys had fun.

But then I saw the catch and I was like, well, you know what?

Okay, this is a 50-year-old guy.

So let's put it on there.

And I put it up there and I thought, oh, this is gonna divide everybody, Democrats and Republicans.

So I went and checked the comments after a couple hours, and there were a couple of people who said, hey, nice catch, Senator, great catch.

Everybody else, I hate you.

I love you.

I was like, okay, okay.

We can't just enjoy the game.

So we're still polarized.

Oh my goodness.

But I'm glad they still play this game.

They've been doing it for decades.

I'm glad they still play the game.

You know what?

I'm not all that jazzed about it because I feel like Nero is fiddling while Rome burns.

But he's not doing a darn thing for the tornado victim.

I think we're always talking about how they can't work across the aisle anymore.

So here's a game where they're playing against each other and you're complaining.

Yes, I am complaining.

I'm the scold here because I, call me crazy, I want federal money for tornado victims in North St.

Louis and he hasn't delivered.

I wish that he could do his job as well as he plays baseball.

Oh, okay.

I hear you, I hear you.

But once again, all right, they haven't got rid of this game.

It's good that they play it.

Okay, all right, hold your thoughts.

Thank you so much.

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